Interesting Statistics About Height and Mating

I don't regularly post about dating on this blog, but I found some interesting stats that I wanted to talk about.

According to a study from Poland based on medical records, tall men have notably greater reproductive success than short men. This other study found the same. The only source that paints a less dramatic picture is this one, where they say short men only have two fewer partners compared to tall men, but that's from a self-reported online survey where even the page itself admits the faults of such a method.

Whatever the case, if we look at men with the fewest partners, I think this helps explain why there's a noticeable amount of males (such as those in the incel community) complaining about height in the sexual market. Keep in mind how one in three young men receive no intimacy all year nowadays (although this is also just a survey, so how much weight it holds depends on who you're asking). Either way, the point is that while a short guy with five partners may not care that his tall counterpart has seven, a short male with zero partners might have had one or two by now had he been taller. Inversely, many of the tall men out there who have only had a couple of partners might still be virgins had they been a foot shorter. I also wonder how old the participants in these studies are, because in recent times, researchers claim the Dutch had a height increase due to women mostly choosing the tallest guys, and men who list their height as 6’ in their bios get the most matches in online dating (keep in mind around 40% of couples today allegedly first met online). I wouldn't be surprised if dating was easier for short men in the past, before online dating, sexual liberation, and higher income gave women more options.

This is also only looking at the quantity and not the quality. If we look at Harvey Weinstein's partner count, it's probably more than a handful, but how many of those women genuinely found him attractive? If some ugly old guy used money to sleep with 100 women, is he more attractive than a male model who wooed fewer women using his looks? I've seen some guys cite research claiming women orgasm more with wealthy men, but this was later debunked by the researchers themselves. If there's any link between wealth and pleasing women, it's probably due to how tall men are more likely to be richer.

Fact of the matter is, apparently women report happier marriages with tall husbands, and infidelity studies show that when women cheat, they are more likely to do so with someone who is taller than their official partner. Also, short men do more housework compared to tall men, but men who do more chores tend to receive less sex.

Short men also have a 24% lower chance of earning less than their spouse, which is curious considering how tall men make more money on average, so you would think tall men would be the ones less likely to be poorer than their wives. The researcher of these findings theorizes:

"On the income side, if you think of marriage as a market and tallness as a valuable commodity, short men “make up” for lacking it by earning more money. If you take the model further, the authors write, the results indicate that by “the perspective of relationship exchange models, this indicates that the tallest men exchange their attractive attribute (height) for better-educated spouses, while short men are unable to do so.”

"Short men have a 24% lower chance of earning less than their spouse, and are less likely to be equal earners. Each additional inch of individual height for a man is negatively related to proportional income with a shorter spouse."

“This further confirms an existence of height-based status exchange in which short men compensate for their lower physical status with higher proportional earnings, while tall men appear more likely to use their status to attract women with higher relative earnings,” the authors write."

Related reading: “Consider a man who is 5' 2" tall. In order to be as desirable to a woman as a man who is 5' 11.5" tall and who earns $62,500 per year, he needs to have an additional income of $269,000 (i.e., he needs to make $331,500 per year).”

Explaining Why It's Hypocritical for Modern Day "Empowered" Women to Use Evo Psych When It Comes to Height

Click image to enlarge.

If you're curious about what article they're talking about, it's here. It's just some dating shit written by a feminist.

I wanted to focus on the evo psych aspect. Everyone loves this stuff until it's used on a politically protected group (like women). For example, people tend to take men more seriously than women, because men are biologically bigger and more powerful on average. Of course, we must question if a mainstream website would publish an article containing this idea when talking about gender issues. If a person tries to argue against women being in the police force due to biology, it's again considered discrimination by many. This stuff is taboo until it comes to male height, then everybody wants to talk caveman style. These same people would probably consider a mainstream article about how older women are biologically inferior to be offensive.

Related reading: Studies show more primitive tribal cultures do not care about height the way we do.

Another Sign That Social Pressure Influences Height Preferences

Basically, there's this video that asks women whether or not they would pick a short man with a large penis, or a tall guy with a small one.

Pretty silly, but what's interesting were the women who talked about choosing the short guy, but only in private, because they'd feel anxious being seen with a short guy in public. I've seen this mentality numerous times, even when penis size isn't involved. Some girl would like a short guy, but not date him due to embarrassment.

It amazes me how many people believe mating is purely instinctive, when there are women who literally talk about public perception influencing them.


Related reading:

This study claims, "Results from the online survey indicate that women wanted tall men for a variety of reasons, but most of the explanations of our respondents were connected to societal expectations or gender stereotypes."

Here's my longer post questioning height and societal/biological roots, complete with numerous sources: http://heightismandothershit.blogspot.ca/2016/07/why-i-dont-believe-height-preferences.html

Blaming Short Men's Personalities In Dating

I try to not talk about short men's dating issues much these days, as I view them as symptoms of heightism itself, like how there's more interracial dating the less racism there is. Still, many of the reasons people use to dismiss short men baffle my mind. The main one is usually something like, "short men get less dates because short men have bad personalities. Lose the chip on your shoulder and the women will follow."

I'll break this down:

• Why would any short man have a "chip on his shoulder" in the first place?
• If women date based on personality and care so much about it, why do millions of women complain about cheating or domestic abuse? Are short men simply worse actors and can't hide a nasty persona? Is every criminal a virgin for life?
• Considering how every poll/study shows that women vastly prefer tall men, why blame short men's personalities?

Let's take a look at the video below:

Now, why would an ad like this exist? Was it his terrible personality she disliked? Or was it the fact that women care about height itself so often, that it can be made into an easily understood advertisement?

How about the message in this ad?

Height or personality? If anyone claims the latter, it's all typical just-world bullshit. The amount of short men who openly show anger over heightism could probably be fit on one island. Most short guys are perpetually grinning and always ready to kiss up to others to show how docile they are, all the while chastising any short man who rocks the boat. Still, the number one deal breaker in dating is height, and when sperm banks have height requirements, is it because the short sperm have bad personalities? When women have options, they usually won't pick the shorter man. With the advent of things like online dating, women have more options than ever, so what's personality have to do with this? Most women just don't like short guys. Don't rub salt in the wound by claiming it's about personality. When some ugly girl is passed over, nobody blames her attitude.

Also, since people love judging short men based on stereotypes, are we supposed to ignore the stereotype that women prefer bad boys? Live by stereotypes or don't. Either way, this study found that women preferred happy nice guys less, so shouldn't short men be more popular? Short Man Syndrome, right?

In all seriousness, here are a few examples of blaming short men's personalities instead of society's height dynamic:

I included the last screenshot because it makes this funnier.

It seems like some girls are a bit too eager to proclaim their sudden distaste towards short men, even if it's based off of a few short men. It's like they've always been waiting for a good opportunity to finally reject all short men, but without being labeled as superficial or narrow-minded. It's like they expect every short man to be a perfect human being, and the moment one or two slip up, it's over. Perhaps this is also due to hearing negative stereotypes about short men since childhood, like from Shrek. Whatever the cause, it typically goes like this:

"It's rarely the height itself that's the issue, it's the crippling insecurity and emotional baggage that accompany it that no one likes."

Seen this a thousand times. Keep in mind you'll never see this with tall men. Even if one literally punches a woman in the face, she’ll still date other tall guys. Meanwhile one or two "insecure short guys" allegedly ruin everything. Also note how society is insecure about many things: weight, breast size, penis size, baldness, nose/eye shape, age, etc. One would think most humans would be single if insecurity were so repulsive, but it seems only short men face any noticeable consequence. Almost like when girls reject a guy before barely knowing him, then outright state it's about his height, maybe we should believe it. Unless all the height requirements women have are actually about personalty.

This whole issue transcends dating. No matter how many people foam at the mouth to hate on tall guys like Osama bin Laden or Donald Trump, society will never target tall height itself. Short men are blamed as a group, and receive consequences as a group. If some short guy used the countless women from heightismxposed as an excuse to hate women, nobody would tolerate it. Only in a prejudiced society could someone say, and I quote, "I actually like short guys but this place makes me want to hate them," then be positively received.

Look at the screenshot below and tell me what the hell is "internalized shortness." Is it the opposite of being tall on the inside?

This is like me pointing out one successful minority, then pretending like society has no more inequity. Remember short men: it's all in your head, although it's nice to know women will like you if you're rich and famous. Keep in mind Bruno Mars has been performing since he was a kid, like child actor Danielle Radcliffe. I'm sure if these short guys were random nobodies performing in small establishments, these women would still totally drool over them. It's how popular this just-world fallacy is that's disturbing, where people would rather call out "angry short men" constantly, rather than examine their own prejudice. That mentality is why things never change.


Here are a good set of comments about this, one from an Asian man:

"I've heard the same fucking thing in regards to race (Asian men). The thing is I don't blame people for having preferences, but not acknowledging that it exists is infuriating. Even worse, turning it on you, the person that has that trait, rather than the population who picks, is really infuriating."

Simply put, whenever people say, "maybe it's not your height, it's your bad personality/laziness/ugliness," they ignore how for men, being short is considered undesirable just like all those other traits.

Why Height Is Not Like Breast Size or Old Age

Can't believe I even have to make this post, but here we are:

• Before somebody claims boobs are sexual but height isn't, if so many women talk about how tall men turn them on, then height is sexual.
• Advertisements like this or this, but about flat women, would never be made nowadays in western society. Maybe if we went back a couple decades, but even then I wouldn't count on it. Today? Definitely not going to be approved. There are films like Twins, Gattaca, and Shrek that try to make a point about short stature. How many movies treat breast size the same way?
• There are flat-chested actresses and models who are still considered very attractive. An extremely short man (under 5'5) is pretty much disqualified as a sex symbol.
• Small breasted women are not regularly labeled with "Flat Girl Syndrome/Complex."
• How often do women have to list their cup size on dating sites? How often do men outright state a breast size requirement then turn down anyone under it? Not to mention how many men either don't mind smaller breasts, or even prefer them. How many women go really nuts for short men?
• I don't recall any government spending millions of dollars to increase the breast size of women.
• Is there such a thing as "idiopathic small cup size?" There's certainly "idiopathic short stature."
• Sperm banks turn down any man below average height. You do not need a certain breast size to be an egg donor.
• It's easier to get breast implants than leg lengthening surgery. 
• Height affects intimidation and physical prowess, while breasts do not.
• It's considered politically incorrect to bodyshame women but not men.
• Here's what happens these days when small breasts are remotely implied to be inferior. Skim through and notice the massive defense force that comes out of the woodwork unsolicited. On the other hand, short men can't even get this much support from fellow short people.

Edit: I should add an example of why I made this post, since I never saved the older times I saw this common sentiment: "Imo the height obession of men is like the boob obession of women. Nobody cares but you. If you make it a difficulty it will be, a self fullfilling prophecy, if you will."

Update: Here's a new one - male height is also being compared to female age. Too bad every old woman was once young, while no short man has ever been a tall man. This is more like a handsome guy complaining that he's now old and wrinkly. Many of the differences I listed above for breast size also applies to age.

Has Online Dating Affected Beauty Standards?

Tinder:

"Female Tinder usage data was collected and statistically analyzed to determine the inequality in the Tinder economy. It was determined that the bottom 80% of men (in terms of attractiveness) are competing for the bottom 22% of women and the top 78% of women are competing for the top 20% of men."

OkCupid:

"women rate an incredible 80% of guys as worse-looking than medium. Very harsh...
Females of OkCupid, we site founders say to you: ouch! Paradoxically, it seems it’s women, not men, who have unrealistic standards for the “average” member of the opposite sex."

Basically, my theory is that online dating has given women many more options than they had back in the day, so now they're pickier. Even if a woman doesn't use online dating, she knows that option is always there.

If There Isn't an Insane Bias Against Short Men In Dating, How Does This "Joke" Make Sense?

 

Think about it. People will claim left and right that any short man who has trouble in dating has a personality defect, it's all in his head, it's not that bad, etc.

If that's the case, how does this joke even exist? If "short" is replaced with something like "dark hair," most people would scratch their heads. It's almost like there actually is an insane stigma against short men in dating.

Also, this Twitter account clearly stole this line from here. Wow, 4500 upvotes. How is this possible? Nobody cares about height. It's just a prank bro.

Height Preferences Vary By Country

http://www.shortsupport.org/Research/personals.html

Excerpt:

"In general, a small man is twice as likely to be preferred by women outside the United States as within.

At first, one might think this is simply because the average height of men and women vary by country. For example, I've seen videos of women in Japan speaking about 5'9 men like they're the 6'0 guys over here. However, there's a problem:

"Except for the Philippines, Indonesia and Thailand, there does not appear to be a significant correlation between women's height in a country and their preference for a tall man."

Country	5' 4" man % in Preference	Median Woman's Height
Caribbean	8%	65
United States	11%	65
Hong Kong	13%	63
Canada	13%	65
England	14%	65
Japan	15%	64
Germany	17%	66
Brazil	17%	65
China	19%	64
Russia	22%	65
Australia	22%	66
France	23%	66
Philippines	25%	62
Indonesia	29%	64
Thailand	40%	63

Notice how the average height for women in America is not so different than those in Russia or France. This also goes beyond dating. When we examine politics, Russia or France has recently elected short men as President, but the United States has not. Also note how other countries do not have derogatory stereotypes about short men like the English speaking ones do, such as "Napoleon Complex" or "Short Man Syndrome." This leads me to believe the social status of short men is less tainted elsewhere, similar to how a non-Asian girl who consumes Asian media is much more likely to date an Asian man, because he's more than just a caricature or negative stereotype. Just my two cents on these statistics.

Why I Don't Believe Height Preferences Are Purely Instinctive

Let me preface this with a disclaimer: even if nobody on Earth preferred short men, that’s technically allowed and within anyone’s choice (this is just hypothetical – a few women actually do prefer short men). However, the many reasons people use to explain why short men are so disliked are questionable to me, so I’m going to break this down.

Evolutionary psychology is usually the main reason people use to explain height preferences, so first I must question whether or not most women pick a 7 feet tall guy over a 6 feet tall one. I know some girls would, but if I had to bet on it, I believe most would pick the 6 foot one. If taller is simply better, why does the ideal height for men seem to cut off at a certain point? One could claim there simply aren’t enough 7 feet tall men around, but even when women could date these tall guys online, men around 7’0 tall statistically do worse than guys around 6’0. Even in fantasies where a woman could dream of anyone, I doubt these dream guys are usually 7 feet tall. It’d be interesting to know if most romance novels, even ones set in magical settings, have a giant male lead. Somehow I doubt it, but again, (biologically) what’s the problem with a super tall guy over a regular tall guy? How can one be “too tall” in a caveman setting?

Also, I don’t believe most lesbian or bisexual women require a fellow woman to be tall, so I also find this interesting. It’s not the height itself that’s attractive, it’s when it’s tied to a male. It’s not purely about sexual dimorphism either, because body hair, a big nose, baldness, etc. are typically male traits, yet they are not preferred. If human nature actually wanted to seek out “superior DNA,” both women and men would prefer tall people, thus eventually eliminating shortness from the gene pool. Instead, they used to inject tall girls with estrogen to prevent them from growing any further: [1][2]. This one study claims: "Results from the online survey indicate that women wanted tall men for a variety of reasons, but most of the explanations of our respondents were connected to societal expectations or gender stereotypes."

One of the reasons short men even exist in abundance is because of short women. Short men would also not live longer on average if the short gene was so terrible. Excerpt from the study: “The folks that were 5-2 and shorter lived the longest. The range was seen all the way across from being 5-foot tall to 6-foot tall. The taller you got, the shorter you lived.” Why would supposedly superior DNA literally die off sooner?

I’ve seen research done on tribal cultures, and none of them care about height as much as modern society. When confronted with this, most people pass it off with something like, “these tribes are just so weird/few that they don’t count.” At least by admitting this, people acknowledge that culture can influence these preferences. See, our society labels assertive/ambitious short men as having “short man syndrome” or a “Napoleon Complex.” When it comes to some random tribe, they would have no idea what those labels even are. Simply from something like that, the social status of short men is improved. For another example, natives had no hierarchy for their totem poles, yet English speakers say “bottom of the totem pole” in a derogatory way, showing how differently cultures can view the same thing.

All in all, this whole evo psych thing is ironic since these tribes actually have to hunt, yet they care less about height than modern day Darwinists who sit around all day. Also keep in mind how just because many people do something, doesn’t mean it’s natural, like how humans are the only ones who regularly milk a different species then drink it. There's also this page I found about differing height preferences by country:

“In general, a small man is twice as likely to be preferred by a women outside the United States as within. There are two possibilities. First, people in the Unites States are more superficial than in other countries. Second, women in the United States are taller and so prefer taller men... Except for the Philippines, Indonesia and Thailand, there does not appear to be a significant correlation between women's height in a country and their preference for a tall man.”

Country	5' 4" man % in Preference	Median Woman's Height
Caribbean	8%	65
United States	11%	65
Hong Kong	13%	63
Canada	13%	65
England	14%	65
Japan	15%	64
Germany	17%	66
Brazil	17%	65
China	19%	64
Russia	22%	65
Australia	22%	66
France	23%	66
Philippines	25%	62
Indonesia	29%	64
Thailand	40%	63

Biologically, why would women in Russia or France care less about height? One can even see this in how those places have recently had short leaders, but America has not. At this juncture, I would love to make some point about the Anglosphere, and how we can trace this back to the days of spreading propaganda about Napoleon’s height. I would even point out the English language’s views on short people (vertically challenged, head and shoulders above, man of his stature, etc.), or talk about colonization/westernization, but Australian women also apparently care less about height, so who the hell knows what's going on here. I would still firmly reiterate the point I made earlier about other cultures: no matter how biased they are about height, they do not label short men with syndromes and complexes.

On a different note, social status is also important: “a 2010 study found that men pictured with a Silver Bentley Continental GT were perceived as way more attractive than those pictures with a Red Ford Fiesta ST, and a 2014 study found that men pictured in a luxury apartment were rated more attractive than those in a control group. - Source

Here's a video from some neuroscientists about how women value popularity. Quote:

"And women respond to other women's opinion of a guy. The more women that are attracted to a man increases the attraction of that man. So the phrase, "The best men are always taken," is doubly true. If a man is taken by definition he's more attractive and appealing; if a man's alone and isolated and solitary and nobody's interested in him that will reduce his appeal just by virtue of not being taken."

In fact, one sizable study found 90 percent of single women were interested in a man who they believed was taken, while a mere 59 percent wanted him when told he was single.

There’s a reason why famous short men suddenly seem more attractive. Sure, many of them are conventionally attractive in terms of face or physique, but if these famous guys were random short men on the street, would their own fangirls still love them? Maybe. Personally, I believe famous short men are attractive in the same way an expensive brand is, and of course tall men start off with more positive social status. It’s the same reason why many women “just happen” to prefer Caucasian men (at least that’s what both OK Cupid and Facebook stats found). If there was some alternate reality where black guys or whatever had the same social status, all of a sudden many women would be born with a “natural” preference for black men. I found some interesting talk about this here.

I've seen people actually get offended by the idea that social status can make a man seem more attractive to women, so think of it this way: if two guys were the same in looks, but one was a prince while the other a commoner, who would seem more enticing? If height is such a strong biological rule like everyone believes, a popular short actor or musician should still lose to a random tall guy at the bar or club, but I think we know who would have the upper hand there. Of course, a tall famous star has status upon status: money/fame along with height.

This is also why we sometimes see women who are okay with sleeping with a short man, but will not be seen dating him publicly, like here. Countless times I’ve seen girls talking about being embarrassed to date a short guy they like (emphasis on how they already like this short guy). It reminds me of videos I’ve seen where non-Asian women talked about dating Asian men. They said people would mockingly ask them things like, “so you like small dicks, huh?” All of this negative attention would annoy these girls so much that they started to question dating these guys. This is literally women admitting how peer pressure influences who they date. They would sooner risk getting impregnated by a short guy than be seen holding hands with him in public.

When it comes to how Asian men and black women are rated more poorly in dating, people have been conditioned to be politically correct about it. Instead of claiming “that’s just the way it is” or “we like what we like,” people blame media portrayals, stereotypes, etc. Considering how often short men are portrayed as losers, sidekicks, villains, and buffoons in the media, while tall men are the badasses and heroes, it’d be preposterous if that didn’t affect how attractive short men seem. In this video at the 9:09 mark, a woman literally says “You want to look up into his eyes. You want it to be like a movie." To this day, people underestimate how much fiction warps expectations. In fact, this study claims the media is directly linked to how we view women's bodies. What about men?

I’ve already written too much on this, so I’ll end by saying that if society’s height preference started off naturally, society has egged it on to unnatural levels. If height preferences/requirements operated even on an 80/20 ratio, I’d be less suspicious about it. Once it becomes more one-sided, especially varying by country, is that not a clear sign culture has something to do with it?

Almost 30k Likes When Women Shit On Short Men

Click to enlarge.

This is why I laugh when society constantly talks about women's body image issues. How often are women called out for doing this to short men? I just want less double standards and hypocrisy is all.

P.S. When girls say "little guy," I guarantee they'd still reject a big short man for a smaller tall one.

"TV Exposure Linked to Female Body Ideal"

Here's the study: http://www.ncl.ac.uk/press/news/2016/02/femalebodyimageideals/

Wonder what would happen if we flipped the genders and made this about height.

Excerpts:

"For the first time experts have been able to eliminate external factors and specifically pinpoint television as having a direct link with female body ideals."

"Research involved assessing groups with different levels of access to Western media. This included people from an urban area, a village with television access, and a village with little television access."

"It was found that the highest Body Mass Index (BMI) preferences were found in the village with least media access, while those living in urban areas preferred thinner female bodies."

"He said: “Our study shows that television is having a significant impact on what people think is the ideal woman’s body."

This reminds me of all the studies where tribal people don't prefer tall men en-masse: http://heightismandothershit.blogspot.ca/2015/12/numerous-studies-on-height-preferences.html

The more studies pop up, the more I'm convinced our preferences are culturally induced for the most part. I think a good example of this, would be our view on penis size compared to ancient Greeks and Romans. Can you believe the big dicked guys used to be the ones mocked? These ideals may start from either instinct or society, but it's the latter than strengthens and spreads it.

Interviews With Women About Male Height

The guy who conducted these interviews is over 6'0 tall, so no one can claim this video is some "bitter Napoleon whining" like usual.

The video itself reminded me of this comment I saw :

Honestly I have never known a guy who would whip out a tape measure to check the breast size of his potential date, or have her step on weight scales to check her weight before dating her. Its really just about overall body shape. But women unapologetically insist on knowing a man's height right down to the centimeter, and that is perfectly acceptable dating protocol in today's society. Why? If he is a centimeter too short, he is done. If he even slightly fudges his height he is labelled a dangerous liar and he is done.

The claim of "its just a preference" is meant to hide the ugly underbelly of height bias in society and to also help keep herself immune from labels like: "superficial."

I've also seen a lot of people miss the point of this video, which isn't just about "preferences" (aka the less narrow way of saying " requirements"). This video specifically pointed out how society has double standards about height and obesity, never mind how the latter isn't even genetic. This is what happens when men are constantly shamed for liking big breasts and thin waists and shit. It's all "unrealistic beauty ideals" and "perverts." Look at video games or comics to see how butthurt people get when a female character has huge breasts showing. Suddenly, men claiming "that's just what we want" doesn't cut it.

Meanwhile, especially with the invention of dating sites/apps, women are pickier than ever. It's about the hypocrisy, which is in the title of the video. Studies are even created about how we view women's bodies due to media, but with height, it's "we like what we like." This enables women to be pickier and pickier over time, while men become more and more tolerant, because they are whipped into feeling guilty about being "unrealistic." Check out what happens these days when some man implies that small breasts are a flaw. Hell breaks loose.

Also note how much stricter Asia is about weight. Many women considered thin in the West would be classified as chubby in the East. At least there, the men can be as picky as the women. Feminism has created a bunch of spineless hypocrites who refuse to hold women equally accountable when it comes to this stuff.

Here's a newer vid, again from a taller guy:

While we all know short men can still find girlfriends/wives, videos like these are useful, because many people don't believe how one-sided this height thing is until they see it for themselves. Then again, even in this video, at 2:49 we get the old "be yourself and be confident" line. The level of cognitive dissonance when it comes to height is pretty amazing.

Thoughts On Lying About Height For Online Dating

Let me preface this by saying I don't use dating sites. My friends use them all the time, but I've never entertained the idea. Call me old fashioned. Having said that, I've noticed lots of people getting mad when men put up fake heights on their profiles, especially when short men do so. Then they claim it's the lying that matters, not height. I call bullshit.

If a 6'2 guy claims 6'4, women don't really care since he's tall either way. If a 5'10 guy lies about being 6'0, he most likely won't get dumped solely for that. Now, a 5'4 man claiming 5'6, despite it being the exact same lie, the exact same number of inches, and the exact same reason for lying, the short man will be treated like an asshole and kicked to the curb. It's the height alone that decides the consequence, not morals or actions or reasons, so why (ironically) lie about this?

If tall stature wasn't so coveted, no man would bother lying about his height anyway (notice how the fake height is always taller). You reap what you sow. Those who claim "it's not the height I dislike, it's the lie" are full of shit. Don't worry though, they concede eventually and admit it is about the height, because shorter = less attractive. It's just different. Fact of the matter is that most people think shortness is inferior. That is not debatable, so when a guy shows up and he's shorter than advertised, the person meeting him feels cheated, like they ordered some product online (for free no less) and got a knockoff. That's why they get angry. I remember once seeing a guy order this cheap product online, but the company messed up and sent him the expensive version. Was he mad he didn't get what he ordered? Of course not.

Claiming to be mad at the lie is just to save face and cover up how superficial this whole thing is. This is also all ignoring the rudeness and double standards. In our world, it's normal dating etiquette for a woman to ask a man his height before agreeing to date him. If a man asked a new girl for her body measurements, or wanted a photo of her face without makeup, he'd be branded a creep. If I threw a fit because some girl tricked me with her makeup and push up bra (happened before), people would tell me to quit being childish. Imagine a guy starts dating a girl he met online, and she later washes off all her makeup and reveals she has tons of acne. Then he kicks her out the door because her initial photos showed none of that. Who would defend him?

Of course, when it comes to male stature, lying about one's height is an abyssal sin, and proves how the liar has an awful personality. Still, I'd bet most girls wouldn't be mad if some guy claimed 5'7 then showed up as 5'9, just like how a poor guy suddenly revealing he was rich wouldn't get him kicked out of bed. I've seen rich men literally "start a relationship with a lie" by claiming to be poor, but unsurprisingly, when women find out these guys are loaded, they like them even more. It's not the lying itself, because otherwise every lie would put women off. What matters is whether or not the reveal is positive or negative in their eyes. Most women view short men as a negative like being poor, which is why they get pissed off. They just don't have the gall to admit it because it sounds too strict, and it would probably decrease the amount of short simps.

The fact that so many people have the same height requirements/preferences is the real travesty here. We don't go around filtering out one specific eye color, for example. No other benign trait is auto rejected as much as short male stature, online or otherwise, so who can blame men for pretending to be taller? Lie or not, the really short guys usually get no dates. If some 5'3 man puts up his real height, he's auto rejected 99% of the time (the 1 percent is when a woman looks past his oh-so disgusting flaw of being a short man). If he claims 5'5 and gets caught, he gets no date, but he wouldn't have gotten one anyway.

When the options are so narrow and limiting, some men become amoral and desperate. Can't say I blame them for turning to the dark side. I've seen tall hobos and tall murderers get loads of fangirls, so either lying about one's height is worse than all that, or everyone's overrating honesty and morality. One could even say many lie about valuing personality over height.

Million Dollar Man Ted DiBiase used to say everyone has a price. Change "price" to "height requirement" and it just depends how low women will go. 6'0, 5'9, 5'6... Never seen it go lower than that, online or in real life. When people quibble over a couple inches, that might provide an inkling as to why a 5'4 guy might claim 5'6. Again, it's the shorter height that puts women off, not the lying itself. Why else would women obsess over an inch or two of height in the first place if personality was so much more important to them? If liars were so unattractive, humanity would be dead.


Update: Seemingly unrelated, but follow me here. I came across a thread on reddit about women lying about partner count. Quote: "You know why she hid it? Because men can't handle the fact that women have slept with other ppl before them."

Short men are basically judged/rejected like promiscuous women are, only without the protection of phrases like "slut shaming," and it's much harder to hide height than something immaterial like partner count. Most of all, there's no choice in being a short man, as partner count isn't even a genetic trait unlike height. Now wonder why any man has to lie about his stature.

Another quote: "Why your boyfriend would need the heads up from his 20something girlfriend that "oh just so you know I used to go to nightclubs and had some one night stands" . What's the weird life he lives that he would need the heads up on that?"

Why do women need a heads up on a man's height before meeting him? I truly hope half the people in this thread view height the exact same way.

"It's okay, there are women who look past a short man's height. She'll ignore your flaws if she loves you."

My sister loves repeating that line. Then she looks legit retarded when I challenge her notion that short men are intrinsically flawed, like I spoke some alien language or some shit. People cannot fathom this idea that short male height is not a disease, the same way they challenge the notion that smaller breasts are uglier.

Imagine a world where people say "don't worry, there are women who will accept you, despite you being Asian" like it's a fucking illness of something. How messed up does that sound? Yet it's universally okay for short male stature? What a joke, especially when you're usually the strongest man in a room.

I don't expect otherwise from some 5'0 Asian woman who goes gaga for 6'0+ white men. Still, she isn't the only one I've heard this from. Whole world is full of fucked up people who expect us to accept our implied inferiority. It makes us positive, content, and acceptable if we do.

Fuck that. Rather be branded a freak for standing up for short men, than be accepted as inferior scum. If some girl thinks my stature is like leprosy, she can kiss my ass. That goes for everyone, in fact.

Also related: I say, "I'm a short dude" as a nonchalant matter of fact, when talking about clothing or something. Then someone else goes "No, you're not short to me! Don't call yourself that." Yeah, thanks for treating it something dirty, something to be swept under the rug, you pieces of shit."No no, you're not Asian, you're white!" Sounds dumb that way, doesn't it?

Girls On Dating Short Guys

Guessing this was filmed in my hometown.

Notice how not one girl enthusiastically said "I love short guys!" Height is just a preference, right?

More like an objective flaw one has to "make up" for. Then they'll make fun of you for compensating.

5'0 Guy Pays Woman to Live With Him

Incredibly sad if true: https://archive.is/hQzAQ

This guy's story could be fabricated, but I prefer reading the responses anyway rather than the original post itself. My favorite comments are the ones telling him to get therapy and confidence. No really, do a word search for "confidence." Perhaps society should get therapy en masse about its height obsession.

Best comments:

"there are plenty of women who love short men of average attractiveness"

Blatant lie. There are women who "don't mind/look past" the oh-so disgusting flaw of being a short man, but there are certainly not "plenty" of women who love such men, unless this person meant women who love these men in spite of such traits, and even that's few and far inbetween.

"I know how you feel man, being 5 '5 isn't much better, no one respects us short guys. I try everything, I drive a red sports car, I work out, I show confidence, I even try big shoes that add some extra inches. But there's always guys who can stare straight down at me, and everyone notices. ^{Plus us short guys aren't usually big where it counts either =(.} It suuuucks. It just puts a dent in my self esteem sometimes when the average man towers over me."

Supposedly shows confidence but tries to wear thicker shoes. Imagine if I said "it puts a dent in my self esteem when the average man is lighter skinned than me." Is that not insecurity? What is it with the emphasis on "towering over" someone anyway? A giraffe towers over an elephant.

The last great comment is from some matchmaker whose 5'0 client got instantly rejected over 50+ times. Also click here for an interview from a dating expert about height. Would all the women who claim "I love you" to their man still say that if he were born 5'0?

Either way, it's not so much the dating itself that's the issue, it's all the platitudes and lies. People think they're helping, but it's super unoriginal at best, and borderline gaslighting at worst. I have proof that this is all bullshit, because take notice any time an ugly woman can't find a date: nobody brings up therapy, her personality, or confidence.

Feminists Love Tall Height Just Like Everyone Else

Skim the comments section:
http://jezebel.com/why-are-you-still-rejecting-short-guys-1729897406

Someone could claim Jezebel feminists "aren't real feminists" but I'm done playing that game. "Tumblr feminists aren't real feminists." "Twitter feminists aren't real feminists." "Reddit feminists aren't real feminists." I've seen feminists from all these websites dismiss and outright mock short men, but I guess they were all imaginary.

Excerpt: "No one in their right mind expects a woman or man to settle for a guy who is short, uneducated, small-dicked, et al."

Like I said in my previous post, height is labeled as a personal preference, but in reality it's considered an objective flaw. Even feminists think short men are to be settled for, or worse, they make it sound like the author is asking women to jump off cliffs. Giving short men a chance is that bad.

Then they try to spin it around and talk about how men are equally picky and shallow. Maybe the tall hot guys are picky (because they can afford to be), but these are the guys women acknowledge more often, so it seems like all men are picky. Otherwise, I guess all the flat-chest lovers and BBW chasers are imaginary. I can link sites where hundreds of men jack off to old fat hairy ladies, but then my blog would have an adult filter.

Short men are virtually nobody's preference. Nothing we didn't already know, but it's nice having more evidence of their victim-blaming and thinly veiled disdain for short men. They leave comments like "it's not about height it's their bad personalities," right after others admit short height is ugly. Throw in typical Napoleon Complex insinuations as if that's a real mental illness.

One commenter called out the "it's not their height it's their personality" line, and here was the retort from someone else:

"Sure, then when they arrive at their next relationship and take that out on a whole new woman who didn’t find them unattractive at all, they perpetuate their own disappointment. Rejection is hard for everyone but bitterness is universally unattractive."

There we go. That comment had over a hundred likes. Even before short men have done anything, they just assume we'll be bitter once given a chance. They think we're that stupid to attack the few good ones. No, the only ones we attack already have a thousand and one excuses. Apparently, we're not allowed to be pissed off by this pure retardation. Best part is how there would be hell to pay if men were this anal over one female trait. Fortunately for them, most men are desperate and thirsty.

There's nothing wrong with bitterness when society automatically assumes you're bitter anyway. I doubt any abusive tall guys have their behavior linked to their heights. These feminists are blind about equality. This isn't just about dating, it's about pure slandering and stereotyping of short men. I wonder how these women would feel if all their anger is attributed to PMS.

I post about feminism and height because I've seen many short male feminists claim things such as, "feminism has helped me love my short body. If feminism gained more traction, heightism would be stigmatized. All short men should be feminists. I can't see why any short men would oppose this." Proof of such men here. These fuckers are out of their minds. I feel worse when feminists shit on short men, because their hypocrisy is the salt in the wound. They preach about "body positivity" and "gender norms," but they worship tall men anyway (whether in or out of dating).

Any feminists who don't apply here are canceled out by non-feminists who feel the same, as in I've seen just as many non-feminists who aren't heightist as feminists who weren't. The more influence women have, the more the Halo Effect will cause their "preference" to seep everywhere, not just their bedrooms. Maybe men will stop killing themselves so much once people wake up. Here are the suicide rates of men compared to women. Here are the links between male height and suicide. Do the math. What kind of male privilege is this?

I don't even believe height is based in gender, because effeminate South Korean men are all the craze right now. They still have to be tall though, as height is a genderless status symbol, like fame or wealth. No matter your gender, you're better off with it, and that's why many women admit to wearing heels to simply be taller. Good luck convincing even heightism-aware short men of this though. Everyone genuinely believes it's all about masculinity. I've been called "manly" as a compliment by others, so trust my stocky hairy ass, this has nothing to do with gender. Yet short male feminists keep pushing their lies.

Feminism is a giant cult and they prey on desperate men. "Join us and we'll protect you and aid you." Then you become just another useful idiot. Don't fall for it.

TL;DR: If feminism helps short men, then shouldn't there be less heightism the more feminism there is? I see the opposite.

Short Male Height Is Viewed as Inferior, yet It's Still Somehow A "Preference"

Good quote: Height - the only trait in which its attractiveness is objectively measurable, yet labeled as a subjective "personal preference".

Short stature is clearly not a good thing in our societies, yet it's still somehow "just a preference" like blonde or brunette. At least that's what they say, especially when short men are fed up. "I don't know why they're mad it's just a preference."

There's a reason why labels like "vertically challenged" exist. "Short" is also used as an insult in itself, especially when it comes to men. Male height is the most one-sided preference of all time. There's no comparison aside from flat-out disfigurement, and at least that's genderless.

Look at how many white knights show up when someone insinuates that small breasted girls are flawed: https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/3e9d4m/anorexia_recovery_84lbs_to_110lbs/ctcvx3e

133 upvotes: "Small tits are amazing and sexy! Shame on you for thinking your preference is the only positive out there!"

Can't remember the last time short male height was defended that way. We get the old "everyone has flaws so deal with it" line, while everyone still acts like it's just a preference.

When it comes to male height, I guess the joke is that they're asking "do you prefer inferior or superior?" Technically, I guess that is a matter of preference, but I doubt any of them get that.

Many people legitimately think "short or tall" is like some hairstyle preference. If you surveyed 100 of these people individually, they'd think at least some of the group would prefer short. The joke is that they all prefer tall. Then they'll come to some evolutionary conclusion about why that's the case. The conclusion is that short men are objectively and genetically inferior. Duh... It's still just a preference though.

When it comes to male height there's endless bullshit about evolushun evolushun. Funny thing is that I could also play the evolutionary game when it comes to breast size, but I doubt most people would have it. Females traits are preferences. Male traits are evolution. There is no female equivalent of "tall, dark, and handsome." Still, everyone will save face by pretending like it's all a preference, so they can go on acting like society is close to equal.

Fact of the matter is that men are thirsty dogs who will go for anything, while most women have the same preference regarding stature. There's no sense in acting like male height preferences are 50/50, or even 20/80, because the few girls who would prefer a 5'0 man over a 6'0 one are so scarce, one might as well search for the holy grail.

Of course, it's frowned upon to state any of this, because it's "too negative" even though it's still true. No, it's men who are the shallow and picky ones.

Asking About Height Is Okay, Asking About Breast Size Is Wrong

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMen/comments/3gqnpo/as_a_woman_how_should_i_state_my_height/cu0nhd0

"okay a lot of guys down below (no pun intended) somehow believe that asking a guy for his height and asking a woman for her breast size are analogously sexual. But they're really straying from the original, sociological argument. My point was, as a woman, you can go up to men and ask them for their height and they'll give it to you (maybe with a bit of bitterness). Now if, as a man, you go around asking women who you've never met before for their cup size, it's creepy, it's SEXUAL HARASSMENT and the cops would likely start chasing you down the street. See the difference?"

I've seen this mentality before. Sometimes they replace bust size with fat women. Either way, this is an amazing level of delusion. If you click the link and check the user's profile, you'll find out this is a real woman and not some troll. I'm not saying women can't be trolls, but (unfortunately) this is a serious account.

I guess technically she's kind of right, because those are society's rules, although her point backfires because it just shows how backwards this is. Women care much more about height than men do about boobs, yet the former is okay to ask about but the latter is not. She later adds:

"You can go ahead and ask the girl directly if you can't really tell from the picture. But keep in mind, she's not going to be offended because she has a B cup. She's going to get offended because you're sexualizing her before you've even met her."

Kind of sounds like women sexualizing men by their height before knowing them, only women can do no wrong.

"I don't online date, but a lot of my friends do and the majority of short guys from what I've seen are FUCKING DECEITFUL. More often than not, I ask about their dates and I've heard "he made himself look a lot taller in his pictures." I guess they're hoping that their personality will shine through. Sound familiar?"

I don't get what this even means. If I take a photo next to my 5'0 sister, and only our upper bodies showed, no doubt some girl would think I'm 5'10 or something. So what? That's their problem. Apparently short men now have to take photos next to a measuring tape, or perhaps a 7 foot guy, so there's no doubt that we're short. Men also don't lie any more about height than women do with makeup, push up bras, fake eyelashes, silicone breasts, etc. Why the double standards?

Really, it's dumb to even compare height with breasts because there are loads of men who don't mind or actually love smaller tits. Now try finding a woman who would choose a 5'0 guy over a 6'0 guy. Finally, how often do we see breast size requirements the way height requirements are abundant?

I'm only posting this because I've seen similar hypocrisy in the past from countless people. She may just be one airhead, but there's more where she came from. As of this posting, her stupidity even got upvoted. We live amongst retards, but one person who isn't completely retarded is this man:

"kay a lot of you somehow believe that enslaving white guy and a black guy are just as wrong. But they're really straying from the original, sociological argument. My point was, as a white man, you can order around a black man and he will do what you say (maybe with a bit of bitterness). Now if, as a black man, you go and order around a white guy, it UPSETS THE NATURAL ORDER OF THINGS and people will try and stop it. See the difference? Yes, they're both enslavement but one is strange and unnatural and the other is just the way things are... get it now?"
-Slave Owner circa 1820

 Hope nobody ruins that analogy with the relative privation fallacy.

Backhanded Compliments for Short Men

The best a short man will ever be, is cute, like a puppy or little brother: https://twitter.com/shortguylove

Meanwhile, tall guys are sexy or hot.

Even the compliments we get seem backhanded and patronizing. I've also heard "short men are less threatening" before as a compliment. That's not a positive in my book, as it invites bullying and condescension.

I'm finding more and more similarities between short men and Asian men, in the way we're universally deemed less threatening (in general, not just in dating). Still, I've seen white guys get blasted for saying, "I prefer Asian women because they're submissive/feminine." Yet girls can essentially say they think short men are weak and harmless as a positive, and that's just a fact/preference.

Beggars can't be choosers, right? Better to be viewed as a toddler than ugly... Ha! I'm actually just posting this for fun as the "cute" thing doesn't apply to me. I have the face of a troll and the body of a gorilla, so I've been told by other guys I look older and scary.

Of course, a short guy who's intimidating is not cool like a tall bad boy, he's just off-putting. If he's short and skinny and boyish, they'll want to pat him on the head like a child. If he's masculine and bulky, then he's an overcompensating stump.

Oh well. Can't ever win 100% as a short guy. Become president? Napoleon Complex. Lift weights? Compensating. Girls find you attractive? Sike, you're just "cute." What, did you think you could make them pant and sweat heavily? Silly little man.

Adding an extra note: people try to defend this shit with evo psych like, "one of the best way to scare off any animal is to appear as tall and menacing as possible. It isn't a societal thing, it's animal instinct." Fact of the matter is that the tallest land animal is the giraffe, but I doubt elephants are intimidated when they look up at them. Animals care more about overall mass, not height.

So even though taller people weigh more on average, that doesn't matter because most girls are more afraid of a 160 lb tall guy than a 200 lb short man. I'd bet money on it. Human society links power to height alone, not overall size. Many do not take short, well-built men seriously, yet stocky animals like rhinos or gorillas are feared in the wild. Makes no sense.